Anonymous:” The way you describe things reminds me most of the way Noguchi describes what he simply called katsugen undou, or the 'exercise that gives life'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katsugen_und%C5%8D The preparatory movements are for beginners to learn how to fall into 'katsugen'.”
Betsy: I liked the link, partly because it tells how this spontaneous form can be done. Comparing to what I do, I see the preparatory exercises serve to activate one's energy centers, raising one's vibration similar to activating one's being or life force. Thus when done, it's easier to get some movement when one lets go of conscious control of one's body. What I intuited to do is activate all the meridians using acupressure, which I think is stronger that what's written here - to activate oneself. One thing missing from this is a meditative focus point, which is also needed as one lets go.
Anonymous: “I have found good reasons for various modalities, though their aims and purposes are quite different. I have found that the specific is there to allow you to engage directly with an aspect of your self either for healing or cultivation, using the method as a mirror.”
Betsy: What I've learned is that aims and purposes aren't very useful because then the personality has a goal, and I progressed more when I gave up trying to accomplish anything. But also this kind of decision will happen in its time, when one realizes the truth of it, and can't be forced. In whatever practice one does, if it has a meditative element, then I think it's good.
Anonymous: Whether it is a physical aspect or an energetic or spiritual one, the methods are not meant to be 'done', rather they are meant to be driven by the 'energy' being looked at.
Betsy: "driven by the 'energy' being looked at" is a paradox. if the 'energy' being looked at is fact one's true self, then how can one be looking at it?
Anonymous: An old term is dao yin or 'guiding qi', you are working with a particular aspect for a reason (healing) and guiding it, not with the mind but with the method as the mind watches. I think the qigong/neigong methods are meant to be like that, that is one side of the polarity.
Betsy: I think the forms of yoga, taichi, etc., work sometimes to make one enter into a meditative state for several reasons. The first is that exercise activates one's energy centers, thus raises one's awareness. The second is that when one does the practice regular, each day, then as well as rising one's awareness thru exercise there is happening micro healing each time and more energy can flow, so also one's overall awareness is rising. Then it can happen that 'being takes over', in the space of doing the exercise, because it becomes so automatic, that one can let go of one's thinking process. The experience the person has, is then of the exercise happening all by itself. This is the meditative state, or that of no mind.
After one has that experience, then one wants it back, and there will be often years, of trying to accomplish it again, trying to find out 'how did I do that?'. Or 'what do I need to do to make it happen like that every time?'. Then there can be years of close observation and experimentation to see 'what you need to do to make it happen'. I went through similar with sitting meditation. So my take on it, is that as long as one is in control, driving with one's intentions', goals, amassing techniques, attaching to the technique - all using one's mind and being identified with 'properties of personality', etc., then it's not meditative because one's current realization is not yet ready to let go of attaining things for oneself (or one's reflected aspect). In order to be able to stop being like this, it will need a revelation of self-knowledge about oneself and how one is made up, which can't be intellectually grokked. This answer is received and it will come when one is ready to get it, and as long as one continues doing one's meditative practice. When this answer is received, one is done with seeking, not as understanding what that might be, but truly done with it, because of the nature of what was received. So it's not really so important the technique one is doing,any vehicle can be used, what is important is being meditative and doing it as much as possible and to keep self-questioning, to keep questioning one's own reactive nature, to keep a fine eye on what one can observe 'inside', etc.
Anonymous: “Much as in the same way that you cannot take in equally all that your eyes view all of the time, you can do this sometimes, but other times you move your attention from more specific things to other specific things.”
Betsy: So you tell me, that you can enter into a meditative state - "sometimes", so one can receive everything at once, when there is no focused/mental intention. So then that's the truth one needs to realize, and just get better at observing, when that 'all seeing' versus 'narrow seeing' flips back and forth. What was one doing when each happened, etc. Awareness happens in the space when there is zero intention, it doesn't need 'our help'.
Anonymous: “The other is 'just being' and the spontaneous 'kriya', 'qigong', 'katsugen' is the other polarity. Here the body and energies are allowed to be and take the form/rhythms that they are at any given time, and so find balance themselves (like water finding a level).
Betsy: Being is the one moving oneself, no matter where one is at in one's evolution, even if one is acting as a dense personality. Bodies and energies aren't separate from oneself. Body is what one's energy (you) has created. The driver is always you, but one's driving ability depends upon what one has realized, in how far one's body has been 'healed' or 'changed'. As one's awareness gets stronger, via reducing the old form of personality (one reclaims that energy and transforms it while in the meditative state - as 'non doing'), then one's movement 'as being’ will simply be more that and less as moving with mind and emotions as personality (what one is evolving away from).
Anonymous:” I think B P Chan's comments (paraphrased) "why do you think we learn these complicated healing arts? You know, hold your hand this way, keep the feet parallel, breathe like this,I want to find out, is this really my hand? Is this really my leg?" Can apply equally to the spontaneous 'formless form' too, certainly as you describe it. It is just the body/energy exploring itself as you witness it, rather than using a method/mirror- hahaha.
Betsy: I hear you... I think because we 'as personalities' are driven by desire and as 'essence', we are driven by wanting 'more light'. But because we start out as the former, then our practice becomes one of something to attain. We keep doing it that way, until we learn how futile this is, which takes it's time -- steps we have to go through before we can give up this kind of wanting. So any technique is performed according to one's actual realization - one can't skip steps, nor do it better than what one is. So another topic, is that one can't move spontaneously until one's awareness can support it. So I guess it might be frustrating to try a spontaneous form technique and then have nothing happen, so then one would stop with it. I don't suggest people try it, until kriyas have actually started.
I recall that I didn't start doing it, until it started happening by itself, which was after the criss-cross spinal column remaking and then I think around 3 weeks of body parts going numb and tingling -- I think this was a major change to my nervous system, and then after, I just noticed that I was totally moving without thinking. The next step for me then was to just start out standing and learn to let go and let myself move. At the time I got frustrated with it, thinking I didn't get it, because I could only 'float' from standing to sitting, then I would 'lose it'. Turns out, it was because my body had not changed enough yet to do it. The practice session itself, the kriya movements are what change the body (when it starts). Over time the kriyas get closer together, as they progress they grow into more fluidity, closer to one continuous 24/7 movement. Then it's interesting because one can move for a whole hour in kriyas, and an outside observer would think you are voluntarily doing it or with 'some technique', yet you aren't, it's being totally done without mind. Which I see is the purpose of all this, we are transforming our old brain which supported the structure of personality - kind of a reflected world into direct spontaneous interaction with things and happenings as they occur. So it's a growing process, and one changes to the new when in the meditative state of true quiet or 'no mind', little by little, as all energy has to be withdrawn from activity in the brain in order to change the brain itself, and this happens in this interval of silence.
Betsy (prior): Spontaneous Kriya Movement, is not very sexy, not very appealing, not entertaining, not dance like and not an easy thing to do.
Anonymous: Hahaha, no I can imagine not : ) I am not at the place where the spontaneous form is driven from a strong 'energetic' movement. I use the memory or the spontaneous movement that occurred after receiving shaktipat, and allow any swaying, rocking, spasms, noises or other movements to come forth…
Betsy: I too used an altered state experience as a memory/guide in my years of work. First to be able to know when I might be like that - so experimenting with different things to see what works and what not and second to remind myself not to stop this 'work' thinking I had 'awakened (knowing how one can easily fool oneself with one's own mental conclusion - I gave up listening to that) until I would FEEL exactly like that 24/7. I keep working towards that, not as a goal, but doing my practice and seeing what works, asking questions when I don't know, and listening and acting upon what I receive as answers. Because things progress, that is the only feedback and confirmation I need, as one becomes more alive it gives a new kind of confirmation 'directly', that doesn't need anyone else's or any other experts approval. This is all about becoming independent and learning to trust.